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Betty, Nicketti, and Necotowance

February 7th, 2012 by Brendan Wolfe · 30 Comments

Hontas Farmer, a graduate student at DePaul University, has briefly set aside her interest in quantum physics in order to take issue with our entry on Princess Nicketti, written by Helen C. Rountree.

First, a bit of background: Princess Nicketti is the name given to a Virginia Indian woman believed by some to have been the daughter of Opechancanough, a leader of the Powhatan Indians and the brother of the paramount chief Powhatan. While the name has been referenced almost exclusively on twenty-first-century genealogy websites by people claiming family relationship, no scholarly evidence exists that Princess Nicketti ever lived. A careful search of seventeenth-century records in Virginia yields no one by that name, male or female. And no name of a child of Opechancanough was ever recorded in that century.

Ms. Farmer writes (emphasis added):

While I have much respect for Dr. Rountree’s work on this I don’t think she’s correct in dismissing oral histories surrounding her [Princess Nicketti] so cavalierly. I go into more detail about this at the following link.

The long and the short of it is this.

Part of the oral history of the Nicketti story is that of her supposed husband “Trader” John Rice Hughes/John Richard Hewing. Those two very very similar oral histories were passed down in seemingly unrelated families for hundreds of years. The Nicketti story was also passed on in the same manner by yet another seemingly unrelated group. Their overlapping details [include] Nicketti [being] married to a trader, [and] Hughes/Hewing [being] married to a prominent Indian woman. The general areas and times also match.

It is incredible to think that all those people would conspire to lie for centuries. So there should be a kernel of truth to them, a historical person.

Rountree thinks that [this] person [i.e., Nicketti] is [actually] Nec[o]towance. Nec[o]towance was a man. Oral history is rarely that wrong. More likely the real person is the one known to history as “Queen betty” who is mentioned even in your own encyclopedia.

Betty was a prominent Indian woman. She would have been related to Powhatan, Pocahontas, etc. etc. She makes way more sense than Nec[o]towance.

Please acknowledge the possibility that identifying Ann with Betty and Nicketti with Nec[o]towance is not gospel truth but simply a scholarly opinion at best.

Just for the record, there is very little in the encyclopedia we would claim as gospel truth (c.f. “History is not what’s true, but what we argue is true”).

Now, Helen Rountree responds (emphasis added):

It seems to me that Hontas Farmer is very disappointed that I can’t back up the 20th century claims for Nicketti. That’s all I say in the article (I just checked over it): that there are no 17th century documents about such a person, so that only oral history is left. I don’t pooh-pooh oral history. I don’t accuse anyone of lying—that’s Farmer’s perception, with heightened sensitivity showing through. And my wording on the identity with Necotowance (“may be”) ought readily to show that I’m not even expressing an opinion, there: I’m only making a suggestion. My comment on the Indianness of “Nicketti” is based on 40 years’ familiarity with Virginia Algonquian names, personal names and place names alike. And like Vine Deloria (who puts it better), I’ve dealt with dozens of people who insisted that they were descended from an Indian princess.

I’d be more at ease [acknowledging] Farmer’s argument about the tradition in two unrelated families if I could see her genealogical evidence for the non-relationship.

So we’ll leave it there, except to say thank you to Hontas Farmer for her feedback and to Helen Rountree for her response.

PS: My own theory: Nicketti = Kenickie.

IMAGE: The wife of an Indian weroance, or chief, carries a gourd while her eight- to ten-year-old daughter waves a European rattle and holds a well-dressed doll in this colored engraving by Theodor de Bry based on a watercolor painting by John White (The Mariners’ Museum).

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30 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Hontas Farmer // Feb 7, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Thankyou for your thoughtful replies both of you.

    To: Dr. Rountree,

    What you wrote here is along the lines of the qualification that the Encyclopedia should have on Nicketti.

    Historical research based on written records cannot back up her existence. That at best stories like those are folk history, closer to myth or legend than pure facts but not lies either.

    That statement is very different than implying that therefore the person did not exist at all. That’s all I’m trying to say.

    That needs to be clearer because based on this encyclopedia Virginia article some people are accusing our family of lying. Not just being wrong but outright fabrication.

    You wrote

    “I’d be more at ease [acknowledging] Farmer’s argument about the tradition in two unrelated families if I could see her genealogical evidence for the non-relationship.”

    The other families which have passed on this story are the Davis family (Trader Hughes), the “Cabells and their kin” (Nicketti) , and my own family Farmer .

    My own research, at the link provided, shows only 10 people with the surname Davis. Not all of whom are related to one another. (Such as my Nephews wife who is black and from the Caribbean.)

    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hfarmer2/srn/f/9/8f2d58e32d065296e0ddcff5f6509a9f.html

    The last white Davis in my family died in 1830 and she was born in wales in 1743. So she also had nothing to do with this.

    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hfarmer2/ppl/e/6/c083273588864216b460153496e.html

    There are NO Cabels in my family tree.

    As to my own descent from a “indian princess” and such. I am named after my father, and his father, and he was named by his grandmother who was a Virginia indian. I didn’t just decide to adopt the name after reading some website.

    The story that lead me to Nicketti was one told to me by my father and several other elders in the same way when I was a little boy back in the 80’s.

    The short version is…

    Our first black ancestor in america was one of the first to be brought to Jamestown. He was not a slave but not free either. He gained his freedom and lived with an indian woman. He was some sort of a wood worker and so was called Hewing and by the first and middle name John Richard. One of my uncles is named after him.

    In case you are wondering how I got my name.

    I am named after my father and grandfather who was named by his grandmother who was an Indian from Virginia. (Or at least she thought she was…but you know that that was at that time with them better than I.)

    I did not just adopt this name thinking it was cute. Not unlike our cousins in Virginia we have tended to go by nicknames as surprisingly many find “hontas” but not pocahontas to be unpronounceable.

    All of that said, the more significant and recent Amerindian contribution to my family comes from the Potawatomi. My father has almost enough blood quantum to be a member.

    Thankyou for respecting my two-spirit gender identity.

    Sincerely
    Hontas Farmer

  • 2 Brendan Wolfe // Feb 7, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Thanks again for your comment, Ms. Farmer, and with all respect to you and your “two-spirit gender identity,” neither Helen Rountree nor Encyclopedia Virginia is accusing anyone of lying. As the entry makes clear, there is evidence of Nicketti in the oral histories but nowhere else. Readers can make their own judgment about what that means.

  • 3 Hontas Farmer // Feb 7, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    I never said you guys were making such an accusation. I have seen blogs on this issue, which take the way this was addressed as ‘not documented’ = ‘not true’. Citing your work as a source they are saying the story is just a lie. I know you all aren’t responsible for that.. But you probably don’t want to be misrepresented either.

    Let us not forget history is written by the victors, and the powerful. A bunch of mixed tri-race people from the swamps and mountains of Virginia (marginal farmlands were the best they had) were neither.

    Thanks for your swift reply, and your humor about grease. As the name Nicketti appeared in a book from the late 19th century perhaps that’s where Grease’s writers got it.lol

    PS I hope Dr Rountree could glance at the documentation I cited above sometime.

    Thanks for all your work.

  • 4 Hontas Farmer // Feb 7, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    One more thing sorry about the repetition in my second reply. I was writing on a tablet. Those things are a real chore to type on and don’t handle content creation very well.

  • 5 Brendan Wolfe // Feb 7, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    No sweat. And many thanks.

  • 6 Crandall Shifflett // Feb 17, 2012 at 8:50 am

    This debate raises interesting and profound issues on oral history, the role of legend, public and professional history, and the authorial voice in the practice of history. I identify with Hontas Farmer on many accounts, not the least of which is our common origins as tri-racials. As a professional historian, I have often witnessed the dismissal of oral history and legend as something not to be taken seriously. I am not accusing anyone of doing that is this case, but simply want to say that there are much larger and more significant issues here, to complex to treat in a brief blog, than just historical positivism.

  • 7 Hontas Farmer // Mar 17, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Hello all.

    While I realize that Dr. Schifflett is not saying that these stories are “true” I appreciate what he said. I also appreciate what Dr. Rountree has said and written here and in her books. Their works are the antidote to ignorance…which a recent modeling TV show demonstrated is still alive and well.

    What Shifflett said about the way the history of tri-racial people is treated in VA and elsewhere is quite true.

    I have a census record from the Catholic mission school at St. Marys. It was where Prairie Band Potawatomi children were sent. One census taker wrote everyone down as either Mulatto or White…then latter at the bottom wrote in that all of them were Indians. I wonder which one of those was officially recorded in other statistics compiled from such a record? This was in 1870. The same ancestor was written down as 3/4 and his daughter written down (incorrectly) as 7/8 Potawatomi in 1920. Only with the oral history in my family of those more recent ancestors made some sense of it.

    PS. I copied all of this discussion as a note on my online family trees for the benefit of others. I really am thankful you raised this issue.

  • 8 Bill Vincent // Mar 31, 2012 at 11:07 am

    It should be stated here that some early tradition for the ancestral name “Nicketti” was indicated by Virginia Governor John Floyd in the 1819 birth of his daughter Nicketti Buchanan Floyd, who eventually married US Senator John Warfield Johnston. Miss Nicketti Floyd was the great-granddaughter of Abigail (or Abadiah) Davis, who was the granddaughter of Nathaniel Davis, c1645-c1710, and Mary Elizabeth Hughes. Mary Elizabeth Hughes is the person generally purported to be the daughter of Nicketti and a trader named Hughes. This appears to indicate of an oral tradition of Nicketti that existed during the late 18th century and probably before. Likewise, any corruption giving rise to the name “Nicketti” must have occurred before 1819. Note that approximately one century passed between the marriage of Mary Elizabeth Hughes and the birth of Gov. John Floyd. Another 100 years passed before “The Cabells and Their Kin” was published.

    As to the title “Princess,” I have always believed it to be bestowed by later generations rather than one actually employed. The term was likely used to convey relationship to a parent of high stature or rank, such as a chief. The use of the title is probably unjustified from a strictly historical basis, but significant as the source of an oral family tradition.

  • 9 Michael O'Hearn // Nov 2, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    I only recently discovered that my mother’s paternal great-grandfather Robert Clark of Ireland was actually Robert Bullock Clark of Kentucky through autosomal DNA matches at ancestry. He was apparently Quaker and settled in a town of County Wexford having a Quaker community before our Civil War, married an Irish lass, and resettled with family in Chicago circa 1880. Three of my Clark cousins played basketball with the Chicago Maroons.

    I happened to trace Robert Bullock Clark’s matrilineal origins, probably to guess what his mtDNA might be, and going back eight generations came up with Nicketti Powhatan at Ancestry. You mention the weroansqa and the matrilineal succession of Powhatan tribal chiefs. How strange.

  • 10 John House // Feb 24, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    My Grandmother states the tradition of being from the Powhatan Nation and also being a part of the Bear Clan Cherokee mixed. They come from the Burkes/Burks side of the family that married into the Peytons /Paytons that all ended up in Kentucky. The fact that she alsways ststed that the old folks said that they fled to Kentucky and that having real and consequencial effects of them being seperated from the Indian side of the family forever. They married whites and in part I feel to not be sent away especoally the Cherokee side and that being said they were of the Bear Clan of the Chreokee. She lived in constant fear of being found to have mixed blood and that seems to be what happened to Nicketti or Betty because of that inhumane fear of being somneone you are not is why they sought to be not found in writen records until much later. This was a God Fearing woman who in my lifetime never spoke ill of anyone and as far as I have ever known never lied. The Burkes/Burks show up on Barren County,Kentucky and so leading to my grandmother who was born in Edmonson it seems that they moved suddenly from Madison, to Henry, to Edmonson, and Grayson Counties in Kentucky I am a descendant of Nicketti or even Betty either way this seems to be a perverted way of describing and Indian name by the English….Oral history either counts or it don’t but in most unlearned cultures of the past Oral Tradition seems to hold up. We as a people know that our early english hiostory was set down long after our ancient grandparents passed away leaving what oral tradition. We in English named our fammilies earky such as Coopers of Barells,Living Underhill,or Stewarts chamberlains of their King and so too Chamberlain. Whne in the early bringing of slaves to the United States they often called their names after the owner if that being so then oral tradition still applies as how did they know to name their English name after. It is apparent to me that people fleeing persecution like the Jewish People fleeing Nazi’s in Germany named their Jewish names otherwise so they could flee that horror. So then these who have mixed now not having anyything byut this nicketti or Betty as the whites probably named her but having her real name remain secret to the whites and not showing up like Pocahantus oif whom I am also related should be allowed thgat commin courtesy to finaly talk about their fleeing persecution and hiding from people who would have cxertainly taken them captive and placed them into lands that they did not know was not a wrong thing to do her descendants dot Kentucky still and by the way we are here and we are proud even though as usual she had to be called by Nicketti or even Betty to have some form of life and geneology.

  • 11 Shere Minton Johnson // May 4, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Here I am watching the History channel and hear something that leads me on a breadcrumb trail to this site. I have recently been looking at my family tree and have come to learn that I too, am related to Nicketti and Trader John. But you know the first I learned of this story was through oral history! When I was very young, maybe 4/5 my mom would tell me to hold up my little finger and then she would tell me I was about that much Indian. As the story went an Englishman sailed to this country and married an Indian princess and that I was descended from them…..a long long time ago. In all my years I have never known my mom to lie to me. She just wouldn’t even entertain the idea of lying. Fast forward to last year when I traced my ancestors back to the very people she told me about so mant years ago. Nicketti and Trader John are my 12th great grandparents. Regardless of what anyone might say, I think I’ll hold strong to the thought that mom was right.

  • 12 JoAnne Evans // May 9, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    I too, have been told for many years, that my family was related to Nicketti. Her daughter, Mary Elizabeth Hughes, was my 8th great-grandmother. She married Nathaniel Davis in 1680. Mary Hughes, who, according to my records, had twelve or thirteen children and their daughter, Mary Elizabeth Davis, became my 7th great-grandmother. Ultimately it came down to Lucinda and Daniel Owen, who had my great-great grandfather, Thomas Ashley Owen.
    It seems very unlikely that all this history is a fabrication, someone’s overactive imagination.

  • 13 Damian Rippberger // Jun 26, 2013 at 8:46 am

    I just found this blog and thought I would share a family story about Nicketti. Ever since I was little my Uncle would always share stories on our Family and our Ancestors. Again, this is a story passed down through the family and is not fact. One of the stories he told me was that we had an Ancestor who was hanged for involvement in the Bacon’s Rebellion and somehow was tied to Pocahontas’s family. This man was Captain James Crews, my 9th great grandfather.
    He was hanged for his part in Bacon’s Rebellion. (Virginia Historical Magazine, Vol. IV, pp 122 and 123) says he was tried on 4 Jan 1676/77 and sentenced to death.

    What I have found was that Captain James Crews in his earlier times before becoming involved in the Rebellion was that he was a trader who did business between the Indians and the white people up the inlets and rivers in eastern Virginia and perhaps southern Maryland as we know them today. He worked in concert with another Trader on the waters that was known as “Trader Hughes”. His first name is unknown. Trader Hughes was known to have a wife named Nicketti who was a niece to Pochahantas.

    I read somewhere that, having this wife gave Trader Hughes safe passage among the Indian villages for his trading. My uncle seemed to believe James Crews had the daughter of Trader Hughes and Nicketti as a wife while trading on the waters as well. Her name is not known. Trader Hughes had another daughter as well named Mary Elizabeth Hughes born in 1650.

    I read somewhere that marriage in those times was not permitted by the English. However, I also read that Trader Hughes and James Crews were given license to keep an Indian.

  • 14 Damian Rippberger // Jun 26, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Sorry, it’s Colonel James Crewe. And he is where my family tree ends……..

  • 15 Dale C. Rice // Jul 20, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    I am a late commer to the party of descendents of the much famed, Captain John Rice Hughes of the JAMES RIVER trading post near Otter Lake Virginia 1642-45.

    If you are a female member of the desendent family of the DAVIS CLAN I am delighted to make your aquaintance….I have an interesting take on your ANCESTOR that may link us together….
    The Family seat in WALES ENGlAND is CAREW Castle and the Port serving it is at TENBY where I will be this September. I point out only a similar and coincidental storyline…there is no proof, but it’s likely in your DNA.
    Perrott ap Rice 1600 born to Thomas and Katherine perrott/Rice 1570 has very special blood markers…..THEY are known to be I1 of Norman Background due to the 1066 invasion….If you know your Haplogroup and know it to be I1 then I am indeed on the right track. I seek to link any descendants of Captain John Rice Hughes 1615 or earlier to my ancestor Perrott ap Rice by DNA. I know what the male line on the Y chromosome, and will soon test for the female Mt. DNA myself…..The implications for this connection is PROFOUND for many reasons….but I am also looking for Male desencents of 18th or 19 or 20 century portraiture that may help to prove our connection to the most powerful family in England during this period….If you can help me with DNA data or photo I will acknowledge it and reward your efforts if this proves to be what my father asserted in 1979 before passing at age 93…The connection I am triangulating by DNA and photgraphic evidence may link us all in a history changing doccumentary with Our Beloved Nicketti or Necowanace to an ENglish Cavilier who claimed to be Scottish to throw people seeking him off the trail….Indeed, Captain John Rice is the deceased brother of Perrott ap Rice and Hughes Family are connected to a family tragedy as are the Otters of Otter lake. My best regards to you in whatever you feel you can contribute….Dale C. Rice 1948

  • 16 Jason Floyd // Aug 13, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    John Floyd 25th us VA Gov is my fourth grandfather and he was denied all work after he admitted Nicketti, Powhatan as a Grandmother Nicketti Powhatan is my direct 9th Grandmother according to every research sight ive searched . Ancestry. Com etc etc . Some may say that the Gov was denied work becouse he was against big government this plays very true as well but wasnt enough to make him loose president of the US and no longer allowed to be in any Government positions . But this is claiming other than white as he did during a time when the indian wars were very well in full swing when laws were inplace that any one not white and a land holder was not allowed to hold office well here you have a mixed person that held alot of land claiming his true identity and holding a title of Gov this made Jackson s skin crawel im sure hence bitter foe of Andrew Jackson . My grandfather was very indian and named a few kids after them including Nicketti that had a kid of that name and he also had sons and grandson’s that passed the name still no proof of Nicketti tho well its called paper Genocide and it was very true the proof was destroyed I figure after they used it to run the last know family out of Washington of her what a good way to so call win I guess my grandfather keep wild bears before passing and I seem to never see any of these other nickitti decent on topps of mountains alone with these bear in my travels as well like they say the proof is in the pudding and why a man with so much to loose would go from future president to hanging with bear and drawing bows and piece pipes he did state he now has thoses in Washington figured out tho time every one else do the same . If you have native blood than be proud i invite you to the deep woods alone with the wild bear with me as well no matter if you do prove or do not prove that Nicketti is and always will be my grandmother and in my heart were she has been in a many family .when her proof does surface dont be shocked tho for me ive seen enough to know . Many blessings stay strong and stay wise the full truth is sure to surface in due time.and this deer season in the deep snow and were 4×4 cant reach look me up. We might be kin .

  • 17 Jason Floyd // Aug 14, 2013 at 4:01 am

    All and one more thing nickitti s legend was passed down in more than one family becouse back in the day before tv .the web and papers people had hero’s they loned to be and named kidds after them and even made there storys there owne in there honor.look how many Jesse James there were even folks robbing that claimed to be him that were nothing close to him. And lets go back just a bit further than that her you have the last main war chief murdered and his last full blood daughter with now a few pretty tough mixed sons and grand sons one of them being col james john floyd and im sure they had more than a few mixed cousins. at the time when white eyes had not seen far west as ky. There were many hostile tribes and the British used it to there advantage for sure see so there were royal tittles becouse this was a war zone and under the British rule in many ways .so how did we win .like this the colonial armys best keep secret .the mixed natives of the last know great tribe and a few of Nicketti sons .fire with fire yeah and there was full blooded of all races fighting for the new nation as well .but just happened to be one of nickitti s son that led them as far as ky last I checked his name is in history for this and Floyd station ky is named after him col. James John Floyd yeah he was a mixed indian with a education and tought to have Roman heroes his best horses name may prove that I wont give it here. But his drive and temper made him the best for the job and his brothers as well burned at the stake they say hell I dont care who you are you burn a mans brother at the stake then be sure your gona be hunted.any way Gov. JOHN FLOYD S DAD is who im talking about that got them to Ky. And he also rescued Boones daughter’s im sure there Decendents were glad of this and they know who they are.these days as well and were told the same facts. See no movie no story books real life heros these mixed sons gave America this big push it needed hence Charles Floyd with luis and Clark that is of the same blood and nephew to the col. James john Floyd they told of the grandmother Nickitti that gave them the high temper blood and build and skills to survive powhatan women were the backbone of the tribe they had many skills they pased down and same with Nicketti these sons of hers were no different that’s why so many land still today bares there name they were the best at what they did for the time abel to slip right in skilled.how do you become a legend . You gota Die this also took place not long after this group got the first settler farther than any one from the east ever dreamed. A few yrs before and what happened every one after the work was done and there all murdered . They become the hero’s of the time thats were the few familys with this in there history come from not to steal the storys in every case some did it out of love and honor . They once knew the truth and how is it his decent prove out with out changing names all the way to Mary Elizabeth Hughes proven daughter of Nicketti Powhatan were not in native records miss Rountree becouse the ones here only go back to the 1900s how would they have her records thats why you never gave it to much research hell one phone call to the pamunkey chief is all that takes no our records only go to 1900 so I ask this how can you find her she goes back further than 1900 my opinion its gona soon be proven of Nicketti if you cant find her then how does any tribes there prove that there of Opechancanough no records past 1900 on the tribes there is it that they do know Nickitti s proof but cant link there self to her.so I hope not but she is real you just need to look deeper . This would upset you if it was your grandmother if not then take her fake records on Ancestry sights and start proving shes fake.i seen all these others that have the storys of nickitti but only one line add up to her and its a ex VA GOV. S Fathers that was the first America hero that so many wanted to be…

  • 18 Jason Floyd // Aug 17, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Heres a start Mary Elizabeth Davis Hughes.1640 1740. She was Nathaniel Davis wife. Her mom was Nicketti Powhatan. And the footers of my straight 8th and 9th Grandmother s home still stand . Grandmother Nicketti was Daughter of Opechancanough and Matachanna. The English named Nicketti s mom Matachanna Cleopatra Grandmother Cleopatra was also the mother of Nectowance Nicketti s brother that was in charge after they murdered Opechancanough .my uncle Nectowance died fighting for the states as well but back to Grandmother Nicketti her Davis grandkids branched out in a few familys not just the 25 Va Gov Floyds line hes my line .to her …becouse his father after rescue of Boone and Calloway girls was a hero of frontier America the story was passed in many directions .But only one that should add up with out name changes sex changes date changes are us of the Davis branches or who ever else that have Mary Elizabeth Davis Hughes. As a Grandmother. I hope you now have herd of my grandmother Nicketti were her only grandchildren that are mixed and still very indian my 87 yr old father seems to be twin to the wahunsonacock statue there and drawing s .so now you have herd of my full blood Grandmother. Nicketti Powhatan last daughter of Opechancanough he had many…. it is in VA History by way of my fourth grandfather 25 US VA Gov John Floyd. That gave the history by way of his 1700s VA Father . Many Blessings and dig deeper you may and may not never see the same .and that does poo poo history when the museum dont know history of there own state Govs. From 1800. And ive read all his bio notes hes a great speller and from his looks he sure knew the difference between a man and woman his daughter had a nickitti name and alot of granddaughter s with the name and the same History .

  • 19 Jason Floyd // Aug 19, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    I dont agree with having to prove my grandmother to no one .on the 25 VA Govs art work he wrote BEWARE. And there is a record of a Mormon Baptism of Nicketti spelled just like his daughters and grandchildren he named after his Grandmother. I DONT know the religion nor do I hold the record but those of blood that do have been made aware of all this bogus stuff you say of her and make other’s try claiming her becouse you cant find it be sure and rest assure. All the blood that was shed from this family we have only told the truth and showed proven document s to her. We here of her and have made her voice herd to others.for generation so ive only gave a few leads since so many are out to steal the truth. Its been this way for good reasons and we dont try taking or claiming nothing that was not proven and passed down. Many blessings I enjoy your work. Only the part that Nicketti was a boy or betty . This makes all my family look bad as well not liers we know the truth.

  • 20 Jason Floyd // Aug 19, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    See Wikipedia page James John Floyd the 25 VA Govs father for Nicketti Powhatan.

  • 21 Jerri Schroeder // Oct 14, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    There were quite a few women named Pocahontas in my Holmes family tree. Today I found the relationship to James Crews & Hannah Crews in my family tree. I was always told by my grandfather that there was a descendant of ours that came from the Pamunkey (Powhatan) tribe . I am learning all I can from all of these posts about Nicketti Powhatan. So many families can’t be wrong

  • 22 Ken // Oct 22, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    To jump into this, my wife’s line claimed kin with Jefferson Davis. Jefferson’s line back into Robert Davis mentioned above, of the Trader Hughes connection.

    Take a serious “look” at Jefferson Davis. Queen Bettie, was she not a daughter of the earlier Cockamania wife Toby West, as the same crowd called her?

    If all these people are wrong where’s the DNA proof? Even Cabell wrote of this line which was one of his wife’s line.

    So the problem is a failure of someone to know where to look, not what has been written.

    Start with the Cavaliers and Pioneers, Volumes 1 to 7.
    Ken

  • 23 Floyds // Oct 26, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    My grandfather John also spoke of a brown name then we have the proof. He was a founding father of the VA historical society he also told his daughter and granddaughter s were we came from he told us rumors about nikitis dad thats the only thing that was unclear not her. He told opeacanough was a foster or half brother to big Powhatan an claimed to be a refugee from far southern tribe but frm his gold serpentine arm bands with emeralds for eyes his style was Aztec. He even claimed his dad was mixed with this not Powhatan it came from cleopatra that mix. And his daughters grandson left a journal that told his grandmother was serious about her story so future familys can track our roots. A guy named plecker missed our story so now we fake liers since 1600s becouse that’s were we got this ive never read cabells story dont want to but will say you guys are messing up true history and its not appreciate d at all.

  • 24 Robbi Dee Anderson-Dagenais // Dec 30, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    I just found out today that I am a descendant of Nicketti, and I am very excited and a little confused. Is she the half-sister of Pocahontas or the half-niece? The line I come from is Martha Davis, daughter of Nathaniel Davis and Mary Elizabeth Hughes. Well, much farther down that that, but that gives you the main idea. Princess Nicketii was my 8th great grandmother. I would love to hear from other relatives with more information.

  • 25 Dale C. Rice // Feb 28, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    Update: February 28, 2014. My sister’s DNA test results are back and she has been contacted by a Hughes descendent asking for her assistance in developing a DNA trail for Necotowanasee’s female chilren lineage. If this proves out then Captain John Rice Hughes and his native companion known as Nikitti on the James River ca 1643 is likely my ancestor Perrott ap RICE 1600 using his dead Cavalier brother’s name to evade the English Revolution and the consequences of his actions in Wales, near the port of Tenby.
    It seems that Necotowanasee and Perrott set up their trading post up the James River after selling the Merchant Vessel which brought them to Virginia from Ma, where Mr. Perrott ap Rice was completing a family based transaction of transport of a minor male child to the care of the Allin Family in Dedham, Ma. So Ms. Robbi Dee Anderson-Dagenais, I encourage you to complete your Mt. DNA test to advance the early history of American Settlement as soon as you are able. You will be in very rare company if you are a direct female descendent of the legendary Noecotowanasee….Kind Regards Dale C. RICE please contact me at my email address listed here.

  • 26 Jon Doerr // Mar 7, 2014 at 9:45 am

    Dale (et. al.),

    1) I was adopted (by my mother’s new husband) while I was still very young, but before my biological father “disappeared” he told stories about an Indian heritage.

    2) In an effort to reconnect with my biological family I had my DNA done.

    3) I have (now) traced my geneology back to Mary Elizabeth Hughes/Trader John & Princess Nicketti.

    4) I am not interested in debating history on this thread, but I would welcome an opportunity to discuss this branch of my tree if any of you would care to contact me! It appears this site strips email addresses but you can initiate contact with me via my Linked in account at:
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/jondoerr

    Semper Fi,
    Jon

  • 27 Robert Hughes // Apr 3, 2014 at 8:08 am

    Late in life I adopted my grandfather’s last name (Hughes) on my mother’s side. He was like a father to me. I remember both of them telling me that we were related to Pochahontas. It could be that with the story being handed down in the family, the name Nicketti was never mentioned or known, and because Pochahontas was famous, her name was easier to remember.

    When I began researching my genealogy on Ancestry.com, I carried the Hughes line back to a Rees Hughes. Other members who also had him in their tree indicated his wife or mistress was Nicketti. He was supposedly a fur trader, and just known as Trader Hughes.

    Since so many diverse familes have carried similar stories down, there has to be some credence to their claims, even though there isn’t hard evidence. When I received my first DNA analysis, it indicated a 3% unknown factor. Later I received an update which indicated Native American. If everyone who has responded to this blog takes a DNA test, then that would most likely prove that these stories are true, even if we can’t find actual documents.

  • 28 J Floyd // May 19, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    Lets do it cousins Hughes, and rice seems you too have already provided proof your DNA 3°% native mr Rice show s native as well. I will get one as well. My 87 yr old pastor father from mingo. My dad rather say s his moms mom told him what his dads side was she was full blood herself
    And a lot of her Belcher family all came to KY too hide . With these white husband s too do the same. The Belcher moms side are Cherokee. So not sure how im to differ the types from dna. But I wad raise ed being told what namaw told dad . So our Floyd line in WV from GRC Floyd side were early mixed Powhatan men that married Cherokee mamaws. Is our Floyd DNA
    I will give you Hughes and mr Rice my finds. I agree lets do it.

  • 29 Dale C. Rice // Oct 5, 2014 at 3:13 am

    Dear Jon Doerr: Just found that you responded to my much earlier posts. Since that time I have established the link to the Paternal Side of the Family which looks to be Sutton-Dudley of Sir Robert as my father said. Found his father to son down line descendent and he too is an I-1 haplogroup. No need to post all the data sets but your Y chromosome begins 13 22 14 10 and end in 11 10 we need to share more deeply off line. This linkage to Rice or Reece Hughes has caused enough uproar that I am reviewing all the previous links and the sale of the boat in 1640 and starting the trading post on the James River near Otter Lake is crucial for me to find and print for doccumentation. J Floyd please contact me at my email above….Robert Hughes: By all means get your test done. You can start with a37 marker Y will give you all the info you need. Cordially yours: Dale C. Rice 1948 of the Nebraska Rice’s

  • 30 Dale C. Rice // Oct 13, 2014 at 5:45 pm

    Necotowanasee or “She who sweeps dew from the grass” is a cousin to Pocahauntus of John Smith fame. Her mother named Cleopatra by white settlers was Aunt to Pocahauntus is my reading of the geneaology. The tribes did not have the same understanding of Royalty that Europeans so there is a cultural divide when Native persons speak of their tribal leaders, they mean something quite different than Europeans do….that’s why any signatures on land transactions in the 1600’s are going to be challenged some day as invalid….the leaders could not legally sign away the land rights of traditional hunting grounds or the forests rights of joint/combined tribal ownership. Which places all the land transactions in question in New York and elsewhere on the East Coast. The Chief was simply not empowered to act for his people in the way European Common Law imagined.

    Now, Necotowanasee and Captain John Rice Hughes were conducting trade on the James River near Otter Lake about 1645-1650 as near as I have seen on line. The person of John Reece Hughes may have been the ANCESTOR of the Rice’s of Ma. arrived about 1640 from Wales then went south to Virginia with Necotowanasee in tow. They were not allowed to marry in the Church at that time so their relationship would have to come under the heading of English Common Law marriage. There is evidence that a Thomas Rice born about 1635 and son of Perrott ap Rice 1598 was brought to America in 1655 to live on the James River. The Boat which was allegedly sold then to supply the trading goods up river would have made the couple a prosperous mixed-marriage couple and the trade would likely have been in copper, furs, gun powder, food. Some sites say that the trading done in Indian Territory kept James Town Alive in the earliest years of settlement….Im not saying that is true, but I have read that elsewhere, so the two persons plus Thomas ap Rice 1635 represent a kind of previoously unknown story that is taking shape out of the reaserch I’ve done to find out what happened to Perrott ap Rice, his father John Perratt 1565 and My 6th GGrandfather John Rice 1630 of Dedham.
    J. Floyd: The Rice’s also connect to the STAR family of Cherokee background, but I don’t have a clear idea of when and how that took place. I however married a 1/4 Saauk girl which makes both children 1/8 native and my son is very, very spiritual and a natural healer who uses and believes in Native Herbs. I would very much like for him to be aquainted with the deep family roots of your family. Regards Dale C. Rice 1948 Nebraska Rice’s

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