Comments on: The Great Man’s Dirty Linen http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-great-mans-dirty-linen Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:53:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Herbert Barger http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-4782 Herbert Barger Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:55:52 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-4782 FLASH! Professor Robert Turner of UVA has just had a Press Conference at the National Press Center in Washington, D.C. reviewing his new book, "The Jefferson-Hemings Controversy, Report of the Scholars Commission Report." The book is the most complete and accurate portrayal of this controversy and 13 prominent scholars concluded that Thomas Jefferson did not father the Sally Hemings children. Annette Gordon-Reed and Monticello should abandon their false claims and insuations that he did. Herb Barger Founder, Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society (www.tjheritage.org and www.jeffersondnastudy.com) FLASH! Professor Robert Turner of UVA has just had a Press Conference at the National Press Center in Washington, D.C. reviewing his new book, “The Jefferson-Hemings Controversy, Report of the Scholars Commission Report.”

The book is the most complete and accurate portrayal of this controversy and 13 prominent scholars concluded that Thomas Jefferson did not father the Sally Hemings children.

Annette Gordon-Reed and Monticello should abandon their false claims and insuations that he did.

Herb Barger
Founder, Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society (www.tjheritage.org and http://www.jeffersondnastudy.com)

]]> By: LR http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-1913 LR Sun, 28 Nov 2010 01:38:49 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-1913 Mr. Zolkvover refers to the claim that Madison Hemings's descendants refuse to allow Madison's son to be DNA tested. While I will give his argument some weight, I have to also respect the read claim that Madison's family does not wish to have his body exhumed from his final resting place. On the other hand, if the family would agree to an exhumation, and the DNA was once again positive for Jefferson's genes, based on what we have seen, it appears as though they would once again say that Randolph or some other Jefferson is the father. Therefore, the objective seems to be to prove that someone outside of the Jefferson lineage was the father of Madison's son which would give weight to the claim that Sally Hemings slept with men outside of the Jefferson lineage. In defense of Madison's family lineage, the online images of Madison's descendants bear an uncanny resemblance to Thomas Jefferson. Mr. Zolkvover refers to the claim that Madison Hemings’s descendants refuse to allow Madison’s son to be DNA tested. While I will give his argument some weight, I have to also respect the read claim that Madison’s family does not wish to have his body exhumed from his final resting place. On the other hand, if the family would agree to an exhumation, and the DNA was once again positive for Jefferson’s genes, based on what we have seen, it appears as though they would once again say that Randolph or some other Jefferson is the father. Therefore, the objective seems to be to prove that someone outside of the Jefferson lineage was the father of Madison’s son which would give weight to the claim that Sally Hemings slept with men outside of the Jefferson lineage.

In defense of Madison’s family lineage, the online images of Madison’s descendants bear an uncanny resemblance to Thomas Jefferson.

]]> By: LR http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-1912 LR Sun, 28 Nov 2010 01:21:51 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-1912 Herb Barger's biggest fault is the manner in which he asserts that TJ did not father Sally Hemings's children. The DNA test prove that a Jefferson fathered Sally Hemings child, this could have been Randolph or any of the other Jefferson's, but it also could have been Thomas Jefferson. Barger, or no one else, can know for sure. During the confirmed times that Randolph was at Monticello, Sally Hemings did not conceive. He was invited to Monticello around Eston's conception, but unlike the other times, his arrival was never confirmed. If it is true that Sally Hemings could have been impregnated by multiple other men, why would Jefferson allow for such sexual exploitation during his watch as she only conceived during the times that Thomas Jefferson was around Monticello. It is true that Jefferson was known to travel away from Monticello to his other farms, but no one can prove that he was away from Monticello within the range of conception of Sally Hemings's children, or that Sally Hemings was apart from him during the times that he traveled from Monticello and she conceived. In defending his stand against slavery, he could be as any other Virginia slave owner. He was know to hunt runaway slaves down, and offer rewards. He at one time had a runaway slave whipped in front of the other slaves. Regarding Jefferson's character, he was accused, and admitted to, soliciting sexual favors from a married woman. The woman's husband stated that Jefferson did this during a time period he would have been married to his own wife who he was said to have been so devoted to. He had an illicit liaison with Maria Cosway, who was married. It seems clear that his character was weak in resisting sexual temptation. He was an amazing man, who made great contributions to our country. But he was not perfect. The obsession with trying to defend Thomas Jefferson against character flaws seems inexplicable. Herb Barger’s biggest fault is the manner in which he asserts that TJ did not father Sally Hemings’s children. The DNA test prove that a Jefferson fathered Sally Hemings child, this could have been Randolph or any of the other Jefferson’s, but it also could have been Thomas Jefferson. Barger, or no one else, can know for sure.

During the confirmed times that Randolph was at Monticello, Sally Hemings did not conceive. He was invited to Monticello around Eston’s conception, but unlike the other times, his arrival was never confirmed.

If it is true that Sally Hemings could have been impregnated by multiple other men, why would Jefferson allow for such sexual exploitation during his watch as she only conceived during the times that Thomas Jefferson was around Monticello.

It is true that Jefferson was known to travel away from Monticello to his other farms, but no one can prove that he was away from Monticello within the range of conception of Sally Hemings’s children, or that Sally Hemings was apart from him during the times that he traveled from Monticello and she conceived.

In defending his stand against slavery, he could be as any other Virginia slave owner. He was know to hunt runaway slaves down, and offer rewards. He at one time had a runaway slave whipped in front of the other slaves.

Regarding Jefferson’s character, he was accused, and admitted to, soliciting sexual favors from a married woman. The woman’s husband stated that Jefferson did this during a time period he would have been married to his own wife who he was said to have been so devoted to. He had an illicit liaison with Maria Cosway, who was married. It seems clear that his character was weak in resisting sexual temptation.

He was an amazing man, who made great contributions to our country. But he was not perfect. The obsession with trying to defend Thomas Jefferson against character flaws seems inexplicable.

]]> By: Herbert Barger http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-54 Herbert Barger Tue, 26 May 2009 19:17:36 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-54 Readers interested in the FALSE accusations of a Thomas Jefferson-Sally Hemings controversy are invited to read two forthcoming books: "In Defense of Thomas Jefferson, The Sally Hemings Sex Scandal" (due out June 9, 09) and Professor Robert Turner's (UVA), exciting, well and long researched book by 13 prominent scholars who found NO Thomas Jefferson Sally Hemings liasion, (due out: Nov.09). Other important books on this FIASCO are already out: "The Jefferson-Hemings Myth, An American Travesty", "Anatomy of a Scandal, Thomas Jefferson and the Sally Story", "Jefferson Vindicated, Fallacies,Omissions and Contradictions in the Hemings Genealogical Search." The public is, in my opinion, being "CONNED" in the name of political correctness and historical revisionism. Herb Barger Founder, Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society Asst. to DNA Researcher, Dr. E.A. Foster Readers interested in the FALSE accusations of a Thomas Jefferson-Sally Hemings controversy are invited to read two forthcoming books: “In Defense of Thomas Jefferson, The Sally Hemings Sex Scandal” (due out June 9, 09) and Professor Robert Turner’s (UVA), exciting, well and long researched book by 13 prominent scholars who found NO Thomas Jefferson Sally Hemings liasion, (due out: Nov.09).

Other important books on this FIASCO are already out: “The Jefferson-Hemings Myth, An American Travesty”, “Anatomy of a Scandal, Thomas Jefferson and the Sally Story”, “Jefferson Vindicated, Fallacies,Omissions and Contradictions in the Hemings Genealogical Search.”

The public is, in my opinion, being “CONNED” in the name of political correctness and historical revisionism.

Herb Barger
Founder, Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society
Asst. to DNA Researcher, Dr. E.A. Foster

]]> By: Shaun Spencer-Hester http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-53 Shaun Spencer-Hester Thu, 16 Apr 2009 04:47:30 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-53 I visited the Reynaldo House in Winston Salem, NC with my father Chauncey Edward Spencer the son of Anne Spencer, in the early eighties. We met with Nancy Susan Reynolds to discuss her knowledge of she and my grandmother being of the same blood line. Nancy clearly stated that she was aware of the fact that the Reynolds were indeed related to Anne Spencer, poet. On the way home we stopped in Patrick County (Critiz, VA) and visited the slave cemetery where my great-great grandmother and other relatives are en-tombed. I visited the Reynaldo House in Winston Salem, NC with my father Chauncey Edward Spencer the son of Anne Spencer, in the early eighties. We met with Nancy Susan Reynolds to discuss her knowledge of she and my grandmother being of the same blood line. Nancy clearly stated that she was aware of the fact that the Reynolds were indeed related to Anne Spencer, poet. On the way home we stopped in Patrick County (Critiz, VA) and visited the slave cemetery where my great-great grandmother and other relatives are en-tombed.

]]> By: Adrian Zolkover http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-52 Adrian Zolkover Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:32:49 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-52 Addendum: I got my statistical information from the book THE JEFFERSON-HEMINGS MYTH AN AMERICAN TRAVESTY, published 2001 by the Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society. I recommend reading this book. On page 197 there is a most helpful Jefferson-Hemings Chronology. Addendum: I got my statistical information from the book THE JEFFERSON-HEMINGS MYTH AN AMERICAN TRAVESTY, published 2001 by the Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society. I recommend reading this book. On page 197 there is a most helpful Jefferson-Hemings Chronology.

]]> By: Adrian Zolkover http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-51 Adrian Zolkover Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:15:44 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-51 Thanks for these many interesting prior comments. Let's play some Sherlock Holmes here. Martha Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson's wife and mother of his children, died in 1782. Sally Hemings had her first child Harriet in 1795. The following evidence leads to the conclusion that Thomas Jefferson was NOT the father of any of Sally Heming's children. 1) Sally lived at Monticello for many child bearing years and didn't become pregnant until Sally was 22 years old, 13 years after Martha died. 2) Only Sally's last child's, Eston's, lineage has been tested for DNA and shows he descended from Sally and A male Jefferson, not necessarily Thomas. Because Thomas Jefferson had no sons they must use the DNA from his brother's descendants. They can't trace this DNA lineage through generations of females. Sally's son Madison's descendants, who were located after much effort, have refused to be DNA tested. 3) We don't know that any other of Sally's children were fathered by a Jefferson. 4) Even if we want to make the BIASED ASSUMPTION that one or more of Sally's other children were fathered by a Jefferson, it is again MOST UNLIKELY that Thomas was the Jefferson that fathered them. 5) Thomas Jefferson was 52 years old when Harriet Hemings, Sally's first child, was born. 6) Thomas's younger brother Randolph Jefferson had become widowed not long before Sally conceived Harriet, her first child. 7) Randolph's wife had died when Raldohph was 37 years old. 8) Randolph's farm was within an hour or two from Monticello. 9) Randolph had sons who were of child bearing age and Randolph and his sons visited Monticello. 10) Randolph socially intermingled with the slaves and it is historically reported that he taught them to play the fiddle. I think it is nauseating that people publish BIASED AND MISINFORMING opinions [and to the extent that they ignore most pertinent scientific evidence and historic evidence, LIES] about the very person who probably did the most to establish a democratic form of government in the United States; and did the most, in the most formative years, to end slavery. Thomas Jefferson wrote numerous articles, including his first draft of the Declaration of Independence, where he said he thought slavery was against mankind, and should be phased out. They made him delete his opinions about slavery from his draft of the Declaration of Independence. He wrote in several articles that he thought inter-racial sexual affairs were degrading to all races involved. If he were having an affair with Sally why didn't she become pregnant before she was 22 years old, or during the 13 years after Thomas's wife died? I think it would have been much out of character for this brilliant, most principled, most important and dashing man to have an affair with the family slave Sally, who helped raise his children. I think there would be many other Caucasian not slave women who would desire to hook up with Thomas Jefferson. And I think this unfair conclusion that Thomas fathered her children is historically degrading to Sally as well as to Thomas. Thanks to Herbert Barger for his excellent work to keep these most important historical records accurate and not untruths. Thanks for these many interesting prior comments. Let’s play some Sherlock Holmes here. Martha Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson’s wife and mother of his children, died in 1782. Sally Hemings had her first child Harriet in 1795. The following evidence leads to the conclusion that Thomas Jefferson was NOT the father of any of Sally Heming’s children. 1) Sally lived at Monticello for many child bearing years and didn’t become pregnant until Sally was 22 years old, 13 years after Martha died. 2) Only Sally’s last child’s, Eston’s, lineage has been tested for DNA and shows he descended from Sally and A male Jefferson, not necessarily Thomas. Because Thomas Jefferson had no sons they must use the DNA from his brother’s descendants. They can’t trace this DNA lineage through generations of females. Sally’s son Madison’s descendants, who were located after much effort, have refused to be DNA tested. 3) We don’t know that any other of Sally’s children were fathered by a Jefferson. 4) Even if we want to make the BIASED ASSUMPTION that one or more of Sally’s other children were fathered by a Jefferson, it is again MOST UNLIKELY that Thomas was the Jefferson that fathered them. 5) Thomas Jefferson was 52 years old when Harriet Hemings, Sally’s first child, was born. 6) Thomas’s younger brother Randolph Jefferson had become widowed not long before Sally conceived Harriet, her first child. 7) Randolph’s wife had died when Raldohph was 37 years old. 8) Randolph’s farm was within an hour or two from Monticello. 9) Randolph had sons who were of child bearing age and Randolph and his sons visited Monticello. 10) Randolph socially intermingled with the slaves and it is historically reported that he taught them to play the fiddle. I think it is nauseating that people publish BIASED AND MISINFORMING opinions [and to the extent that they ignore most pertinent scientific evidence and historic evidence, LIES] about the very person who probably did the most to establish a democratic form of government in the United States; and did the most, in the most formative years, to end slavery. Thomas Jefferson wrote numerous articles, including his first draft of the Declaration of Independence, where he said he thought slavery was against mankind, and should be phased out. They made him delete his opinions about slavery from his draft of the Declaration of Independence. He wrote in several articles that he thought inter-racial sexual affairs were degrading to all races involved. If he were having an affair with Sally why didn’t she become pregnant before she was 22 years old, or during the 13 years after Thomas’s wife died? I think it would have been much out of character for this brilliant, most principled, most important and dashing man to have an affair with the family slave Sally, who helped raise his children. I think there would be many other Caucasian not slave women who would desire to hook up with Thomas Jefferson. And I think this unfair conclusion that Thomas fathered her children is historically degrading to Sally as well as to Thomas. Thanks to Herbert Barger for his excellent work to keep these most important historical records accurate and not untruths.

]]> By: Herbert Barger http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-50 Herbert Barger Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:51 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-50 We are commenting in a Virginia History Forum here and should, in my opinion, stick to facts and leave out the "soap opera" stuff. Maria Cosway doesn't reflect on the issue of whether Thomas Jefferson fathered Sally's kids or not. Or even whether he was more than just a man. The issue is, did he father Sally's children? I and many other serious researchers say "NO". Our children's textbooks are being contaminated with untruths and political correctness, let us get the story correct now. Dr Foster claims that there is nothing proving that TJ fathered Sally's kids. He said that in the New York Times and in the second issue of Nature Journal (Jan 7, 1999). Even the scholar, Annette Gordon-Reed states in her book that DNA does not prove that the descendant of Eston Hemings was fathered by Thomas Jefferson. The Scholars Commission Report (13 top independent scholars, including the Chairman of that group, Professor Robert Turner of UVA acting as Chairman), found NO proof that it was Thomas Jefferson who fathered those children. Read the full report as a link from The Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society web page (www.tjheritage.org). For some time and even the Monticello Research Group have assumed the Pike County, Ohio newspaper article by abolitionist Samuel Wetmore was a truthful interview of Madison Hemings, son of Sally Hemings giving all "facts" surrounding the controversy. It has been pointed out that several of the statements are to be called into question. For brevity I will cite only one, however if we can "see through" this inaccurate statement, may we not question ANY statement made in this article, which was challenged by the opposing political paper of the day, the Waverly Watchman. The article states that Madison Hemings claims to have been named for James Madison at his birth at Monticello upon the occasion of Dolley Madison's visit there at his birth, January 19, 1805. A little detailed resaearch reveals that the Madisons NEVER visited Virginia from Washington during winter where Dolley was busy assisting President Jefferson as Hostess in the White House and also busy assisting her husband, the Secretary of State. Just imagine this scenario if you will: Dolley suddenly announces to these two gentlemen that she must apologise for rushing away at this busy time in Mr. Jefferson's second term, to "name a slave MALE child for her husband." Now this was well before medical science could know the sex of an unborn child, what name if it had been female? WHY, would this brave lady even conceive of such a hazardess 3-4 day winter trip? Madison was not satisfied enough by concocting such a trip for the media of the day, but topping it off by stating that Dolley had not given a gift which she had promised his mother, but that was what white people did. There is NOTHING in the article that states that "Sally told Madison that he and his siblings were fathered by Thomas Jefferson." The major scandalous newspaper article by James Callender accused TJ of fathering a Sally child, Tom. This Tom would later be adopted to a nearby Woodson family and that family would forever in family "oral" history claim descent from Thomas Jefferson. Judge Robert Cooley(Woodson descendant) would claim this very prominently several times in Ken Burn;s series on Jefferson. At his sudden accidental death, his family requested burial in the Monticello Cemetery based upon "ORAL" family history and the Monticello Assn. refused upon no proof of accuracy. Shortly thereafter test results would reveal NO Jefferson-Woodson match. Thus a near misjudgement based upon oral history was avoided. Can we believe that Ken Burns will revise his inaccurate film series? The DNA Study, of which I assisted on with Dr. Foster, found NO Jefferson-Woodson match. This was done twice because the Woodson's could not believe the test was accurate. SO, Callender's Campaign Lies werer just that....LIES. I call upon today's historians and the managment of Monticello to come forward with a NEW study using ALL facts as known. A nationally televised debate would also bring out the real truth of this bungled and mishandled important DNA test. Herb Barger Jefferson Family Historian We are commenting in a Virginia History Forum here and should, in my opinion, stick to facts and leave out the “soap opera” stuff. Maria Cosway doesn’t reflect on the issue of whether Thomas Jefferson fathered Sally’s kids or not. Or even whether he was more than just a man.

The issue is, did he father Sally’s children? I and many other serious researchers say “NO”. Our children’s textbooks are being contaminated with untruths and political correctness, let us get the story correct now. Dr Foster claims that there is nothing proving that TJ fathered Sally’s kids. He said that in the New York Times and in the second issue of Nature Journal (Jan 7, 1999). Even the scholar, Annette Gordon-Reed states in her book that DNA does not prove that the descendant of Eston Hemings was fathered by Thomas Jefferson. The Scholars Commission Report (13 top independent scholars, including the Chairman of that group, Professor Robert Turner of UVA acting as Chairman), found NO proof that it was Thomas Jefferson who fathered those children. Read the full report as a link from The Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society web page (www.tjheritage.org).

For some time and even the Monticello Research Group have assumed the Pike County, Ohio newspaper article by abolitionist Samuel Wetmore was a truthful interview of Madison Hemings, son of Sally Hemings giving all “facts” surrounding the controversy. It has been pointed out that several of the statements are to be called into question. For brevity I will cite only one, however if we can “see through” this inaccurate statement, may we not question ANY statement made in this article, which was challenged by the opposing political paper of the day, the Waverly Watchman.

The article states that Madison Hemings claims to have been named for James Madison at his birth at Monticello upon the occasion of Dolley Madison’s visit there at his birth, January 19, 1805. A little detailed resaearch reveals that the Madisons NEVER visited Virginia from Washington during winter where Dolley was busy assisting President Jefferson as Hostess in the White House and also busy assisting her husband, the Secretary of State. Just imagine this scenario if you will: Dolley suddenly announces to these two gentlemen that she must apologise for rushing away at this busy time in Mr. Jefferson’s second term, to “name a slave MALE child for her husband.” Now this was well before medical science could know the sex of an unborn child, what name if it had been female? WHY, would this brave lady even conceive of such a hazardess 3-4 day winter trip? Madison was not satisfied enough by concocting such a trip for the media of the day, but topping it off by stating that Dolley had not given a gift which she had promised his mother, but that was what white people did. There is NOTHING in the article that states that “Sally told Madison that he and his siblings were fathered by Thomas Jefferson.”

The major scandalous newspaper article by James Callender accused TJ of fathering a Sally child, Tom. This Tom would later be adopted to a nearby Woodson family and that family would forever in family “oral” history claim descent from Thomas Jefferson. Judge Robert Cooley(Woodson descendant) would claim this very prominently several times in Ken Burn;s series on Jefferson. At his sudden accidental death, his family requested burial in the Monticello Cemetery based upon “ORAL” family history and the Monticello Assn. refused upon no proof of accuracy. Shortly thereafter test results would reveal NO Jefferson-Woodson match. Thus a near misjudgement based upon oral history was avoided. Can we believe that Ken Burns will revise his inaccurate film series?

The DNA Study, of which I assisted on with Dr. Foster, found NO Jefferson-Woodson match. This was done twice because the Woodson’s could not believe the test was accurate. SO, Callender’s Campaign Lies werer just that….LIES.

I call upon today’s historians and the managment of Monticello to come forward with a NEW study using ALL facts as known. A nationally televised debate would also bring out the real truth of this bungled and mishandled important DNA test.

Herb Barger
Jefferson Family Historian

]]> By: Brendan Wolfe http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-49 Brendan Wolfe Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:48:15 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-49 Kalela, Well put. I couldn't agree more. Kalela, Well put. I couldn’t agree more.

]]> By: Kalela Williams http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/2008/06/24/the-great-mans-dirty-linen/comment-page-1/#comment-48 Kalela Williams Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:46:24 +0000 http://blog.encyclopediavirginia.org/?p=113#comment-48 Oh, absolutely, it is a very valid arguement in and of itself on what is consensual when one individual has complete power over another--when one individual owns another. I did not mean to downplay Sally Heming's station at Monticello. I think two hundred years is a very long way to judge anything, including a person's charecter. Herbert Barger mentioned "no proof" of a relationship as found by the Scholars Commission Report. Well of course you're going to find no proof. We're talking about a man who was very protective of his posterity and, didn't he destroy letters from his wife after her death? We will never know for sure whether or not Thomas Jefferson had a relationship with Sally Hemings, or what were the terms of the relationship. And from our standpoint it is difficult to judge what is consensual because our ideas about it are so different than centuries ago. For instance, maybe Sally Hemings might have thought the relationship was perfectly consensual in an era when she was property and even free women didn't have as many rights. From a 2008 standpoint, I could look at it however, and say there's no way a master/slave relationship can be based on consent. Again, I did not mean to imply that everything was peachy-keen and they enjoyed a healthy, fulfilling relationship with long walks on the beach, etc. If Jefferson did have a relationship with Hemings it would be amazingly complex even from the vantage point of 200 years ago, and in a different era as today it would be just as difficult to assess. But what is old-fashioned is the idea that an upstanding man like Jefferson was any more than a man. My point in my first comments are simply that some historians take issue with Jefferson possibly having affair with a slave, and they shouldn't feel so defensive. I believe if there were strong "allegations" he had an affair with Maria Cosway, the lovely, educated Frenchwoman he met in Paris, no one would feel the need to "exonerate" him from anything. Oh, absolutely, it is a very valid arguement in and of itself on what is consensual when one individual has complete power over another–when one individual owns another. I did not mean to downplay Sally Heming’s station at Monticello.

I think two hundred years is a very long way to judge anything, including a person’s charecter. Herbert Barger mentioned “no proof” of a relationship as found by the Scholars Commission Report. Well of course you’re going to find no proof. We’re talking about a man who was very protective of his posterity and, didn’t he destroy letters from his wife after her death? We will never know for sure whether or not Thomas Jefferson had a relationship with Sally Hemings, or what were the terms of the relationship. And from our standpoint it is difficult to judge what is consensual because our ideas about it are so different than centuries ago. For instance, maybe Sally Hemings might have thought the relationship was perfectly consensual in an era when she was property and even free women didn’t have as many rights. From a 2008 standpoint, I could look at it however, and say there’s no way a master/slave relationship can be based on consent. Again, I did not mean to imply that everything was peachy-keen and they enjoyed a healthy, fulfilling relationship with long walks on the beach, etc. If Jefferson did have a relationship with Hemings it would be amazingly complex even from the vantage point of 200 years ago, and in a different era as today it would be just as difficult to assess. But what is old-fashioned is the idea that an upstanding man like Jefferson was any more than a man. My point in my first comments are simply that some historians take issue with Jefferson possibly having affair with a slave, and they shouldn’t feel so defensive. I believe if there were strong “allegations” he had an affair with Maria Cosway, the lovely, educated Frenchwoman he met in Paris, no one would feel the need to “exonerate” him from anything.

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